Episode Transcript
Stacey: Being able to change that story, knowing we can't change the facts about what happened. But I can change. You know, I can change the story, but also I change. I've got complete control over what comes next. And so that was a biggie. And then that evolved, that then evolved into a deep gratitude for the accident, what had happened and how it had changed my life. And so many people think, how the heck can end up a quadriplegic in a wheelchair for the rest of your life? Be positive. But yes, I know when people spend time with me, then they realize that, like, I am truly grateful for what's happened. And I can say now with absolute certainty that, you know, I would never have had the opportunities to do all these things that I have along the path, had my life. My life had gone the way that I'd planned it.
[Music]
Ocea: Hello and welcome. How are you? My name is Ocea Ebel and this is my podcast Love Yourself Well in this episode, I'm chatting to Stacey Copas, who is dubbed the Queen of resilience by seven times world surfing champion Layne Beachley and David Goggins. Arguably the world's toughest man calls her a bad ass, whatever you call her. Stacey is resilient. She is the author of How to Be Resilient, and you may have seen her speak on a stage or featured in the Financial Review on ABC radio and in the Australian. Left a quadriplegic and needing a wheelchair after a devastating accident when she was 12. She did not let this tragic accident slow her down. In this conversation, you will hear Stacey's inspiring story and insights on how to look at obstacles as opportunities as problems as possibilities. She shares her practical tips on how to be resilient in life. I hope you enjoy this conversation and you have as many aha moments as I did. Stacey Copas is here with us today and we're talking all things resilient. And I read her beautiful book, How to Be Resilient, which is a wonderful workbook. You can see I've got my post-it notes on there. And I'd like to welcome Stacey and ask you, Stacey, to just share a little bit about yourself and why resilience has become your topic.
Stacey: Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. It's exciting. I'm so excited you have actually kicked off the podcast. And as someone who was procrastinating for eight years on doing it, um, and I've just, um, I'm doing my 20th editing I just published by 24th episode. So it's once you get started, it's good fun. Um, but yeah, like, it's, um, it's super to be here. And yeah, I guess a little bit about my, my story and how I came to be speaking about resilience. Um, unlike a lot of people who speak about resilience, I am not an academic and I'm not a psychologist. And it's interesting because for so many years, I felt that that meant that I wasn't qualified to speak about resilience. And and it wasn't until one day I was in a room full of CEOs. And I said, by the way, I'm not an academic or I'm not a psychologist. And they said thank God for that. And and I was just like, oh, okay. That little bit of that self-doubt or just feeling like, oh my gosh, everyone else wants to, you know, it's so many times it's like, oh, but it's. It's science based and it's evidence based, and it's all these type of things. And I'm like, no, my stuff's back, my life. And I think that's a lot more relatable than, you know, a bunch of surveys that are done of a group of people at one point in time. So, um, that's how I like to look at it. But, um, the way I got into speaking about resilience was, um, I guess I'll take you take you back to, I guess, the resilience story really. Um, when I was 12 years old. I had, um, an accident in a backyard swimming pool with, um, devastating consequences. Um, and before that, I was, um, an athlete. I was the pitcher in the softball team. I was the first girl to play soccer for the school. I run a every distance cross-country right down to the 100m. And so having that moment after after that incident in a backyard swimming pool where, um, you know, I had a doctor in intensive care one night, that night come and tell me that I'd actually broken my neck and drowned and that I'd never walk again. That just felt like a death sentence to me. And so that, you know, I like all I saw myself was as an athlete. And then also academically, you know, was pretty talented. I'd gotten into a selective agricultural high school for my secondary school. All my dream was, was to be a vet. So, you know, being told I'd never walk again meant that I was not going to be able to be a vet. I couldn't play softball, I couldn't play soccer, I couldn't run, I couldn't even walk. I couldn't dress myself, I couldn't do anything. And for the first eight weeks after that accident I spent, I was flat on my back with a sandbag either side of my head, not able to move anything. And, you know, went from being that fiercely independent, motivated, driven, ambitious young woman to being dependent on others for everything. And so it really it really just felt like what was the point at that time? And much like I think anyone has something so significant happened. I spent many, many years afterwards in, you know, in a in definitely a dark place, but I was also really good at not letting on to anybody that that's where I was. I was really good at that. Nothing to see here. Just getting on with life. Don't ask any questions and, um, yeah. And look a lot, much like a lot of teams as I was at the time then, you know, my outlets were getting drunk and getting stoned. And I look back at that time now and I sort of see that I was, you know, creating these moments of artificial happiness and but unfortunately, then there's sort of the pits of, you know, depression, despair and anxiety and anger and bitterness and resentful ness, like just got deeper and deeper in between. But again, I did not let anyone in on that. Um, and then when I look back at that time now, I sort of see that, you know, while physically I drowned once when I had that accident. But, you know, emotionally I was drowning every single day at that point in time. Um, eventually I was able to, you know, get get on with it a little bit and leave those destructive habits behind, which were definitely dragging me down. Um, but eventually I got to the point where I was able to actually completely change the way I looked at the accident. And I realized while I couldn't change what had happened, I could change the story I told about it both to myself and to others because I really I didn't really talk about it at all with with anybody. Um, and yeah, and then I just sort of that sort of opened up possibilities for me. And then I just got on with. Yeah, I just looked at us like, I'm just going on with life again. Nothing. Nothing to see here, nothing special. And, you know, finish school, got a job, you know, got a boyfriend, did all those types of things. Um, but it wasn't until it was probably. Yeah, early 30s that I sort of went down there, you know, the, the personal development, um, route. And it was interesting because, um, everyone sort of looked at me and thought, oh, you look really motivated and all this sort of stuff, but I found that I learned lots of things, but I was terrible at implementation or start things and never get them done. And so I thought, look, I think I've got a bit of a motivation issue. So I sort of thought, look, I need to I need to learn more about this. So, you know, I bought books on eBay and did all that type of stuff. And eventually I ended up, um, finding the person that I, and I thought, this is a person I want to learn about this stuff from. And it was Pat Mesiti back in the back in the day. And, um, so, you know, I bought it, bought his books. I went to his workshops, I bought I went to one, one seminar and I'm like, whatever you're selling and buying. And, you know, I bought everything. And then it was through a workshop of his that, um, he was the one that actually said to me that, you know, Stace, you need to be sharing your story. And I was like, no, I don't want to do that. Everyone's going to think I'm a total wanker for talking about myself. And he said, no. He said, looked at me and he said, it's not about you, it's about your audience. And if you don't share your story, you're being selfish. And I was like, yeah, wow, how can I argue with that? And that it was actually another mentor, um, Judith Wilson, who I worked with after Pat, and she actually was the one that put the word resilience to what I do. It was never a word. That was a word that I remember using. It wasn't a word that I ever remember being having an awareness of. Um, but then once, you know, she explained it to me and I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. And that's how resilience came about. So it gets often its mentors and coaches that people around us see something in us before we see it ourselves. And and that was definitely the case for me. And then there was 2011, 2012, um, and I left my last job and which was at the CSIRO in Adelaide in 2012. So yeah, 12 years ago I left that job. And resilience has been what I'd been committed to and sharing and a different perspective on it. But yeah, and so I'm excited that we get to have a chat about all things resilience today.
Ocea: Me too, because I like that you've just mentioned that you have a different perspective, because I do have a question to ask you about that a little bit later. I do really want to emphasize what you said in the sense, because I've had a similar, um, kind of layer have to be removed of who am I not to share? Why am I thinking that it is about me when it's really about service, or this wonderful service that you've offered and impacted on people for the last decade or so. Can you imagine if you didn't do that, how many people would still be struggling? So when you shoot that perspective and you take it from yourself, which is not what it's about anyway, and you move it, it really does make your message more powerful, first of all, and it's just an opportunity for people to grow as well. And that's what life's about, isn't it? To bring people along for the ride to, you know, create, not compete. So I, I love that introduction I'm going to ask you to go a little bit deeper, though on how did you move your mindset. So you said that you did the things that you, you know, many teens do, but then you kind of, you know, suppressed it of like, I'm not I'm not worthy to talk about this story. I don't want to share the story. Um, so how did you move from maybe, you know, numbing that that reality of what was and accepting and loving yourself and seeing your potential? What did you actually do to create this resilience because many people may have fallen in a heap and just said, my life has nothing to offer but you, you, you got up and you went to work, you got a job, you built a relationship. You you still kept on contributing. And then you had those aha moments where resilience is actually what you've been practicing. How did you move to that mindset though?
Stacey: Yeah. Look, it was definitely a very gradual process. I think the first thing was said, stopping, getting stoned and stuff all the time was a big one. Um, because to me, it was one of those things that I realized I was just getting foggy and foggy, and I was like, well, what's the point in that? Um, you know, I had some moments where, uh, you know, I questioned, you know, my existence at all and just didn't feel and that there was anything of value at the lowest points. Um, and I did have one of those, you know, those rock bottom moments that really was a turning point where I did find myself, uh, you know, at one of those lowest points where it just felt like, you know, there was just no point anymore. Um, and, you know, in that moment that, you know, I found myself at home alone with a bottle of pills and a and a bottle of water. I just going the only thing that stopped me in that moment was the fear that that someone would find me before I was gone, and I'd end up worse than where I was. And if I had of had a guarantee at that time that that wouldn't have happened. Then I wouldn't be here today. And that scared, that scared me. Because, you know, again, you hear people talk about these moments and there's so much judgment around it, and you never, ever imagined that you would find yourself in that moment. And so that was one of those ones where I was like, pretty much, you know, you know, get your shit together. It's um, and again, you have those proverbial forks in the road where it's. And that for me, it was like, you know, either get on with it or give up. And and so that was probably a real, a real kick up, you know, kick in the pants to sort of go, all right, okay. Like actually move forward. Um, and so and again, I never, I never even shared anything about that. And you know, until I wrote the book, no one, no one even close to me knew that I had, you know, the lows as low as they were. Um, so that was more about it, just like, you know, just get on with it. At least just focus on the day to day and, um, and then it was just like, hey, look, I find what I'm going to do when I finish school, those type of things. But the, the biggest step, I think, was, as I mentioned earlier, was the being able to change that story, knowing we can't change the facts about what happened. But I can change, you know, I can change the story, but also I change. I've got complete control over what comes next. And so that was a biggie. And then that evolved, that then evolved into a deep gratitude for the accident, what had happened and how it had changed my life. And so many people think, how the heck can end up a quadriplegic in a wheelchair for the rest of your life? Be positive.
Ocea: Well yes.
Stacey: I know when people spend time with me, then they realize that, like, I am truly grateful for what's happened. And I can say now with absolute certainty that, you know, I would never have had the opportunities to do all these things that I have along the path, had my life. My life had gone the way that I'd planned it. And so, yeah, that was that was that was a big one. Um, and it's interesting, as I said, like even from a resilience perspective, I didn't I didn't didn't even from memory. I don't even know what resilience was. But then once I started reverse engineering, how did I get from that point of thinking that life was over to where I was at the point in time where I started speaking and writing the book, and then I realized there was so many of these things that I did. And, you know, some of it was conscious, but I think most of it was just unconscious and in more instinctual. And and that's how I then put together that framework in the book, How to Be Resilient, um, about those forms of resilience and some ways to apply them. Um, but, you know, if someone was listening to this today and was, as you said, feeling that, you know, there's like there's nothing, nothing worth worthwhile or nothing to look forward to. Um, the, the thing I usually get people to start with, this is again, just gratitude. Um, even if you don't think that there's anything to be grateful for. Just say thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to have this experience right now. And because you can't feel bad about something you're grateful for. Um, and, and that, that just sort of shifts that energy straight away. And, like, what I love about gratitude is that it's it's about possibility and opportunity and abundance rather than lack and fear and scarcity. So that's a biggie. Um, you mentioned there about, you know, about loving, loving myself and things like that. Oh my gosh, that was probably something that came, oh, much later in the piece. And that's even where my gratitude practice with mantras and stuff like that came from. I was trying to work on self-love, and that was after I'd gotten divorced and stuff like that, um, quite a few years back. And, and the way I wanted I started to do that is as I fell asleep every night, I was just like, I love you, I love you, I love you, and oh my gosh, it felt so wanky. It felt awful. And I thought, this is just this is rubbish. This is rubbish. And and it wasn't that I'd read to do that. It was just something that I felt again, show love for myself literally kind of thing. Um, and that just felt so weird. Um, but yeah, I think that it's, it's it's something that, again, even when you just say about loving yourself, like, I think a lot of people just probably bristle and sort of think, oh, that feels like really weird or selfishly, again, wanky. But now I'm in a place where. Yeah, absolutely do that. And once you realize, I think for me it was realising again, you you have to love yourself to a certain level before you can expect the love that we desire from other people. It it has to it has to be something that we have ourselves first, otherwise. I find that so often then you end up coming from a place of lack in everything you do, or a place of scarcity and a place of need, rather than the being loving to yourself. And then when you are in a place where you do truly love and value and respect yourself, then it's just incredible how just the world around us seems to shift, because the outside world is a mirror to ourselves. And then that's what I love. And then, then that led, yeah, led me to be, you know, to work with the relationship coach and do all these other things just to go, you know, what do I need to do in order to be, again, that person that. Is what you know is worthy of having relationships with the people that you want to have relationships with. So that was a bit of a, you know, meandering way to get that quote.
Ocea: No, not at all. Stacey. Um, my heart is skipping with joy for you, expressing with the fact that you got to a point where you could love yourself, because so often the resistance calls because people think I'm being selfish, like you said, or oh, this is arrogant. They love themselves. There's this negative connotation when really what we're talking about is loving your essence of who you are just because you are, not because of what you do or what you have. But you are a miracle and you are worthy. And unfortunately, we don't all get that message when we're growing up or if we are dealing with situations which may not fit a normal mainstream way. So we have to battle all the time and fight for this worthiness. But when you do what you're saying, even a simple little thing, which is so hard in the beginning, I remember the first time I looked in the mirror in my eyes and I said, I love you. I couldn't, I just turned away and I wept. It was such a hard thing to do. Which is crazy because it should be one of the easiest, but unfortunately it's part of our path. I guess. It's part of our journey. It's part of our learning. But when it clicks, it's exactly what you say. It's transformative to your life. It does very much what you said with you changed your story, with your experience, and the way you told the story is the way that then the world reacted to you for that story. The same thing when we feel that we're worthy, all of a sudden we have this clarity of, oh, actually, no, that's that doesn't actually validate my self-worth and so it doesn't resonate. We don't do it. So these things do happen subconsciously, not so much consciously once you once you really get it. So I love that. Skip skip skip skip with joy, I love that. I do want to say another thing as well is when you're going through that process of wanting to say what I you know love yourself well is language. And that's one thing you talk about in your book and, and what would be some tips that you use to, I guess, keep in check and and quieten your inner critic and amplify your in a coach. What type of language do you do you use?
Stacey: It's interesting because the the most negative conversations that we usually have are the ones we have with ourselves. Like, yeah, it just does. Um, and also too, it doesn't matter how good you get. Uh, again, being amplifying the inner coach, it's never going to like it's never going to silence completely the that negative little inner chatter. Um, and that was something that was really interesting for me because just when we are watching interviews with people that were in on top of their game and stuff like that, and realising that that voice never goes away. And so, you know, for me, it it's, it's sometimes it's, it's it's just acknowledging it. You just get better at it's almost having a conversation with it. And, and, and all of the things that I, I sort of do is, is also recognizing that it's, it's the hardwiring of our brains, the primal brain, that it's designed to keep us safe. So at any time it feels threatened or it feels that there's something that's slightly dangerous, then it's going to try and talk you out of whatever that is. And so sometimes I'll just go, thanks, brain. I got this. And but recognizing that the other thing that I find is one of the best processes for being able to have that level, first of all, awareness of that language that we use internally and also in the conversations we have with others is journaling. And I find that journaling is amazing because it gives you the opportunity at the end of every day, because I'm an evening journaller, and it gives you the opportunity at the end of every day to write a little bit about what happened in the day. But also, as you're writing, you get to see, well, how am I describing these situations? Because I've discovered that how we describe a situation is how we experience the situation, and through the process of journaling, we can actually start to change the language. So again, though, you're not changing the facts of a situation, but you're changing the story you tell about what happened. And so through that process, we can actually change something that might have ended up being a big thing that was going to be a weight that we dragged for years and years and years. We have the opportunity through the process of journaling and actually looking at how we talked about that situation to ourselves. We can change that through the course of a few sentences. So journaling is a big one for me. This month actually marks nine years that I have not missed one night of journaling.
Ocea: Wow, nine years. Isn’t that great.
Stacey: It's so powerful. Um and for me, it's one of those things I used to joke about it, but it's true. It's probably saved me tens of thousands of therapy in the I really is, because that's what I do. And and it starts it starts just as a, you know, first of all, that was just to capture what was the best thing that happened that day. And then I started just committing to the I started with the prompt today I had the opportunity to and then write and then finish the sentence. Um, but sometimes it's been I've had two and a half, 3000 word journals, um, at times just because when once you sort of get in that flow and that's having that. It's almost it's it's externalising the conversation. It's been happening in your head. And um, so I find that super powerful and so but also then just being able to then recognise and having that self-awareness, when you hear some of that awfulising language that kicks in is actually stopping yourself and then flipping that language around. And it's so interesting, like I in the book, you sort of there was a there was a section report like some of the you had the swear words almost which like should like that word short is just so disempowering.
Ocea: Yes. I feel the same about that word. I, I wrack my brain and and sometimes it is the only word of choice. But it does. I'd rather swear it and say that word totally with you. Can I ask your question about your journaling? Because that is a really powerful tool and I'm so impressed. I cannot make a claim that I have done it every single day since I started. And so I want to send you a big star. That is that's that's amazing. What a powerful practice for yourself and for you to change your world. Do you keep them? Do you look back on them? Do you say, oh, wow, I've grown so much? Is that also a positive affirmation of your personal growth? Or do you just do you just release them and and let them go? Or discard them.
Stacey: Yeah, well, I actually use an electronic journal. And the tool I use has a feature called The Looking Glass. I actually went, it turned and it keeps turning itself off, which is really annoying. So the looking glass here's one should been journaling for a period of time. You can enable this feature and it actually sends you an email every day saying on this day, um, how many years ago? This is what this was what you wrote. And then you can click through and read the entire journal entry and it could be like on this month or in this on the, you know, how many years ago, like if you haven't been as consistent as I have. And what I found was super cool about that is, as you mentioned, often it can be a reflection of your growth, but sometimes also sometimes also you can look at it and go, oh my gosh, I had all the answers like seven years ago and I still haven't done anything about it. So that me that can be, um, really helpful as well. But I think that, um, I think the main thing with the journaling is just the act of doing it. Like, even if you were never to look at it again, even if you were to write it and then burn it as soon as you wrote it, it's that process of actually doing it and then sort of reflecting on the stuff as you're writing. And that's the big thing about doing the journal is that it it forces you to be present with what you're writing about. And, um, and you sort of looking at it. The big thing is, and it's also, I think why people do, um, you know, speak to therapists and stuff because it's externalising these things. And as soon as you sort of get as soon as you take it out of, um, that internal dialogue that goes on, then it it takes the power away from it a lot, too. And so I think once you sort of see the words on a page or on a screen, the handwriting is always better. But I just found that the electronic one was something that was easier for me to manage. Um, but I think, yeah, it's valuable sometimes just to go back and have a look at them. Um, but yeah, I like that my one. I only just re-enabled that feature a few days ago. And so the last couple of days I've had those and, you know, today's was like five years ago, this is what you wrote, and it's pretty cool.
Ocea: I found an I started journaling and a dream book in 1992. So we're going back, right? That's how old I am! Um, not consistently though, not not every day. But I kept them for a long time and then I got rid of them because there were lots and lots of notebooks. However, some of them I found just recently, they kind of must have slipped. You know, how you just have that box of things that always seems to come with you no matter where you go? And it has been so interesting to be reminded of situations that were so traumatic at the time. But, just have no power right now. So it's interesting because exactly what you were saying by not by keeping them all in our head, sometimes we we just keep co-creating, creating, creating. And then ultimately we are just, I guess, seeing more of that in our world. So it's really hard to create change. So definitely the journaling and and getting it out and seeing that difference in yourself and sometimes going, oh my God, did I really write that. But then thank God, at the time, you're not judging yourself, you know? And that's a really important factor. I find a lot of people again with the resistance is they want to edit what they journal, but that's not the point of it, just about downloading what they're. And I encourage people to do this practice. I call it clear the crap. And it's just get a piece of paper and just write whatever comes to your head, whatever comes to your head. Keep writing, writing, writing, writing. Maybe you said time limit on it or until you feel like you've done, don't go back. Don't read it. Don't re-edit it just write, write, write, write, write. And then sit down, have, you know, have a clear mind and then work on whatever you want to work on, whether it overcoming something, a task or setting a new goal and working on the planning around it. So just getting things out of your head really is transformative just in itself without doing anything else, just clearing, clearing that that crap. And again, going back to gratitude practice, that's one thing I do every day is gratitude. Because 100% you can't be in an anxious state if you're in a grateful state. And I wanted to touch on something you said before about the gratitude and clarify for people that you just didn't jump into gratitude after having that accident. You have to deal with those negative emotions like there's no room for toxic positivity here. Like you have to deal with those negative emotions, maybe go through the despair, but while you're going through it, it can be really hard to find something to be grateful for. And I probably even suggest maybe at that time you just couldn't even look at gratitude. But later down the track, you, you reflect back and you go, okay, this is my thank you for that situation, but it is okay in times of despair to kind to not say thank you, and recognise that. I'm not being grateful for anything right now. This is really hard. I want to deal with this. I might see a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel. I might just say thank you for the fact that I am waking up today to a hot plate of food. Just find something. It doesn't have to be around that situation. It just has to be something to keep that little light glimmer of hope. I just wanted to clarify that because sometimes people say, how can you be grateful for that awful thing that happened? And it's just like, I'm not really grateful for that awful thing, but I'm grateful for what came out of it in myself. So you know I think yeah clarifying that is a super important. And that's it. That's a big thing to do as well. That's all part of taking responsibility isn't it? And going, okay I can't control that, but I'm responsible for the story that I create, as you said, how I respond to that. And and you're also allowed to react at times to we're not perfect. We're not, you know, we're not ai, we're not, we're not programmed in, you know. Well, we are programmed, but not all the same way. So let's talk a bit about responsibility in relation to building resilience. So, how do you take responsibility. Like at what point in time did you go. I have an element of responsibility for something that happened in my life. How did how did you make that choice? Because that's a really big call. It's so easy to say, oh, but this person should have done this, or that person should have done that, or why didn't I do this? Like to kind of put this blame everywhere. Except within. Not even blame, but accept. Just going okay, I made this decision, so I'm responsible for that. How did you come to that and in anything that you did, not just in the accident in through your life? Because I know through my life I had an experience, um, where I was just so upset and so angry and I cried and I'm like, how did I get here? And if you would have seen me, you probably would have put me into a psychiatric ward because I was weeping. I was I swear I, was rocking in the corner and I was like, do you like get here? And it was like a film in my head from that, a big decision that I made at 15 and then how everything went to that. And it was at that moment I was probably in my early 30s. There must be a similar time for women. I say 33 and uh, and, um, I went for. Okay. I'm totally responsible. Yes, some shit happened, but I'm responsible for how I reacted. The decision that I made to get there and that changed everything in my life. So how did you get to that point to take responsibility for what you have to take responsibility for?
Stacey: Yeah, I think the big one was recognising that it's a choice. And it's so often I said, I shared with my story and that was part of that. Um, you know, being able to choose that path, get it, you know, get up, get out, get on with it or give up. And and I say, look, it was a choice and obviously get on with it is taking ownership. And that was where it's a matter of going. Well, no matter what has happened, again, we have complete ownership in where we go next. And so being able to actually recognise that and also to because if we blame then it gives away your personal power. And that become a victim mentality. If you're always going pointing the finger, it's that person's fault. It's that person's fault. It's the government's fault. It's all this type of stuff. And that is that's a victim. And so one realises that that's it. And so even in situations where it might have been like, okay, there were external factors at play that did lead to the particular thing that happened. Um, rather than, again, getting focused on the blame and all that couldas, wouldas, shouldas, all that type of stuff, then it's a matter of going, well, I'm just going to take responsibility for, again, what comes next. What do I do from here? Um, and then it also comes down to then that makes you focused on solutions rather than problems. And that was a that was a really big one. And so for me is taking that responsibility for well, I was in that situation because of my own actions. You know, I chose to dive into the pool the way I did. Um, you know, I dove into that pool over and over and over again. And then that one particular time, then I was like, oh, I'm splashing too much, and now I need to try and make a perfect dive. And, you know, and then because I tried to do things a different way, then I ended up in the situation I was in and, and again, it was like I was completely, um, completely that was my that was my, my doing. And so, you know, beat yourself up, you can do all that. You can try and go all I could of done this differently. But again, it just all it does is it just creates attachment to a negative situation. And so that just taking responsibility it is just going to go a little. I own this. Um, and and again, it sounds simple. Um, and and in essence, it is simple. Um, but it definitely, it definitely has some discomfort attached to it. And. Yeah. And that's and so that's, that's the whole thing. It's a matter of just looking at any situation and, and going yeah, well okay. Yeah okay. I own it. And then I'm gonna, I'm gonna own exactly what comes next as well. And, and I like that you touched on to again not sort of having that, you know, toxic toxic positivity about everything and, and you know, since I wrote the book, I published the book like nine years ago now. And the framework for the framework for resilience is 12 years ago I first wrote that, but it's been over the last few years, and it was through the process of starting to write another book that I realized that I probably was in that camp because I was just like, next, next, next, next. Let's just march on to the next thing And then I realized that I hadn't actually stopped to feel these things or anything in the moment. And so I've further refined my model now of resilience. And it's recognizing, as you say, we there are reactions like, we can't we can't undo that because again, it's our wiring in in any situation there's going to be that split second reaction. And again then what we take then responsibility for is that response. And um, and recognising that. And so now I've looked at it and I've broken it down a little bit further. And so we have like the rituals for building resilience. And then you have your reactions because you have those reactions. But then in that reaction then I've broken it down further to feelings and facts. So within that we need to actually feel the feelings. We need to actually try and actually it rather than try and tell us, you know, try and change it or rationalise or justify or any of those things, it's actually just sitting there. It's like, you know, am I feeling angry? Am I feeling scared? Am I feeling jealous? Am I feeling guilty? Am I feeling whatever that feeling is? It's actually sit with it for a little bit. Um, because the thing is, when we see when we see these things, when we feel these things, we actually then let them go. Whereas when we don't we actually hang on to them and they become like a visualisation I had of it. It's almost like we're towing a trailer, but there's something underneath that trailer that's dragging and it's picking up stuff and picking it up, but it's picking it up and it's getting heavier and bigger and bigger. And then if if you don't actually, you know, go and clear those bits of sticks out from underneath there as they get picked up, then, you know, start a fire or something like that going on. Um, so yeah, so looking at that and so it's like, so you see it with the feelings and then you can assess the facts of the situation and then make that decision. And then they knew how your responses. And then that's okay. What's my response now and what's my response next. So it's um, you know, responsibility is it's huge. Um, but I think more and more there's just everyone wants to blame someone else. The disease is a blameotitis and the people being excuseeologist and again it just keeps you in a negative place.
Ocea: Interesting way of putting it, either trial or the accumulation, because we do accumulate so many things without stopping to pause to see if they're serving us. And we these days, it's so much easier to distract yourself, isn't it? We have social media, we have streaming, and I love those things. I'm not bagging them for me, they serve a great purpose. However, sometimes I’ll catch myself using them as a distraction because I don't want to finish something because it's a little bit hard. So I will finish and binge a series and be like, oh, subconsciously I've finished something but haven't done what I needed to do. So there's all these little distractions. And when you talk about sitting with feelings, growing up with a Italian migrant family, feelings were expressed. But you never really sat with them. You ate. Well, you know, my Nonna, you are an unhappy little girl you ate. You're a happy little girl you eat food, it's even you know, those type of things are managing your feelings through food or through developing addictions. It is just so many different ways. So it's a really powerful thing incredibly uncomfortable to sit with yourself sometimes, but I guess that's why mindfulness is a major practice that I encourage people to do, to just sit with the discomfort and just hold no judgment because you're not alone. We all, we all have those experiences and it's okay. You will be okay after a and they're temporary. We don't feel the same all the time. So yeah they're really beautiful words to share and advice. One thing that popped out of me in your book I want to go back to is obstacles and opportunities and problems as possibilities. I love that, that's awesome. I love that where is my sticky note? I cannot speak because that's a really lovely way to summarise what you've just said about moving from being a victim to taking responsibility. So I'm going to say it again for everybody. Obstacles as opportunities and problems as possibilities. Please share.
Stacey: Yeah, you're pretty much that's that's pretty much my vision, um, is to be able to then help people, to see those, to see obstacles as opportunities and problems as possibilities. Um, and again, it comes down to it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a situation. But again, there's two paths and your own choice. And really, if you would, the responsibility is the, the, the choice of taking the opportunities and the possibilities path. And so and I think that's the thing is it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter what's happened. It's we have the choice of what it is. And it all comes down to, again, the language that we're using. How are we describing that situation? Are we describing it in a way that it's awful and it's terrible and it's the, you know, it's devastating and it's the worst thing it's ever happened. And, um, you know, how could this ever, you know, how am I ever going to come back from this? This is like awful stuff. Um, or you can again and this is where the, the, the practice of gratitude comes into it as well, is that in that moment is even just to stop and say, and this is where you're saying that sometimes you have those those moments where you think, oh, look, you know, the gratitude is like the furthest thing from the mind. It just doesn't even seem possible because that thing doesn't look like it's something specific to be grateful for. And that's why I actually use, um. I use a mantra around gratitude rather than looking for specific things to be grateful for. Because that. Yeah, because I tried to, you know, write down five things you're grateful for every day. Like I tried it and I did it consistently for quite a long period of time and it felt wanky, to me, it just felt. It felt like an obligation and a chore, and it didn't create an experience of gratitude for me. So then I use a mantra which is thank you for the opportunity to be who I am, where I am, with what I have at this moment in time. Thank you for the opportunity to be who I am, where I am, with what I have at this moment in time. And that's one in those moments that do feel so shitty and do feel so dark is to actually to stop a moment. Take a few deep breaths and just say that. And because it's not saying that this specific thing right here, like, you know, you're grateful for you. You're grateful for all of these things around you. You're grateful for the moment in time. And I think that's that. That's one of those things about it's also it brings mindfulness into it because gratitude does bring you into that moment. Um, and, and even, as you were saying before about sometimes, you know, if we're looking at a specific situation and you're like, okay, what is the opportunity in it? Then again, sometimes that's not always immediately apparent, but it's having an intention that there is an opportunity from it. And so I've sort of broken it down at times. If you're in a, in a, in a moment where again it just feels like it's all too big. Then as I say, I usually say three things. It's, it's I think you ask what's a lesson or the opportunity in it, and then how could it help somebody else? And those second and third questions. Often those answers aren't going to be immediately apparent, but it's it's seed planting. And again, it's creating an intention that there is an opportunity or a possibility in that moment, and often that it might be helpful for someone else down the track. Then suddenly that moment that seemed so overwhelming and dark and hopeless then becomes valuable. But it doesn't all happen in that instant. There's, as I said, seed planting and intentions. And sometimes, I'm sure, you know, you and whoever's listening today has had situations that five, ten years down the track you go, oh, well, it makes sense now.
Ocea: Yeah, that is very true because we want everything to be instant, don't we? Like, well, what if it's worth? And another thing is sometimes I believe not everything has a lesson. Sometimes shitty things just happen. And it's more about us doing what you said, just going, thank you for this moment in time and just moving along with it. We don't actually need to find a lesson in everything. We can let that flow as it happens. So that's really, again, so powerful and loving this conversation. You are speaking my language. I'm sorry Abby, I do want to ask. You've referred to it a few times and you've said you've improved and improved it. Sorry. So what is your blueprint for resilience? What are the steps that you believe need to be taken to build resilience? Maybe not all at once, maybe over time, but but what are they? What's what's the what's the blueprint according to Stacey be?
Stacey: Yeah. No, definitely. Definitely very practical. That's the big thing is and that's why a lot of people and they've come to like my keynotes or done coaching with me and things like that before, particularly the keynotes, because people are like, oh, I can actually do this. Like I can do this right now. I don't need to have someone come in and do a six week course in order to understand how this becomes relevant to me. Um, so and for me, the big thing to, to really to impart to people is in my perspective, 75% of resilience is proactive. So it's actually doing simple rituals over time that then builds that capacity of resilience rather than it all being about, oh, something's gone wrong now, I've got to be resilient and I need to do that. Um, and so that's probably the difference, because I feel like particularly a lot of the work I've done in the past has been in in the sort of corporate business sector and in that sector particularly, and I think even just more broadly, I feel that the majority of resilience that has been spoken about, promoted. I would say it's become really synonymous with just how do you cope with a challenge and challenging a situation. Whereas for me, I'm like, okay, first of all, we need to build our capacity, much like going to the gym and building, you know, those simple, repetitive tasks done consistently over time. The compounding effect builds strength. And so resilience is the same. And there's there's there's there's numerous different rituals that you can use to build resilience. And the main thing is with anything I usually say to people, it's like, choose one, choose one. Get that as you'll like. My journaling is my non-negotiable. Um, so I would sort of say, um, for people to say there's a few things that they could do, but to usually the first one to start with online is, is journaling. And, and I would just recommend that people start with the commitment to write one sentence. And that sentence is today I had the opportunity to. And that really brings into a number of the other factors together, because it's working on the language, because first of all, you're saying opportunity and you're finding it. And that's the thing is, sometimes people go, oh, well, again, that's just getting the best bit of the day. But sometimes it could be the opportunity could have been this was a really challenging situation and the opportunity was how did I what did I do with it? Um, and the other thing is that also can bring in some of the gratitude, but the language, all of those things. So I would just recommend people go today I had the opportunity to write a sentence because a lot of people don't journal because they're like, I can't write. I don't know what to write about. Or, they have an expectation that they need to write like a full page every day. And it's like, no, that's not necessarily true. Once you write the one sentence, sometimes it flows. Um, and look, even now, sometimes my journals, I would say there's never anything that's less than 100 words these days. But, you know, sometimes they've been 2500 words. So I think that's a big one. Gratitude. Using the mantra So the way I use that is when I, when my alarm goes off in the morning, I hit stop. And before I get out of bed, I say thank you for the opportunity to be who I am, where I am, with what I have at this moment in time. Few deep breaths. Set the intention that sets the intention for the day with gratitude. Um, and also when I go to bed every night, light goes out. Thank you for the opportunity to be who I am, where I am, with what I have at this moment in time. And think for anyone. Like if people don't have an idea of what mantra they want to use, start with that. That might be the one for them as well. Um, but just think of something that is a statement that you can do, and it's not like it's not an Im affirmation. It's just it's a what can you say that's actually going to bring you into the present and have you feeling, you know, really, um, you know, really grateful, happy, content with where you are. Um, so that's a biggie. Um, one of my other big ones these days, which I didn't touch on in the book because I didn't realise until the last few years just how transformational of a factor it's been for me when it comes to resilience is music. Music is just, oh my gosh. I would say that music actually kept me alive at my lowest points. And, um, but music is something that in the space of 3 to 5 minutes, whatever a length of a song is, it can completely transform your energy. Like nothing else. And what I love about music is you could just listen to it. You can sing, you can move. Um, sometimes I sort of say to people, you know, again, if you want to try and again really lift the energy, then find a go to song that you can play. And I used to say like dance to it. And some guys just give you that growly face. I'm like, all right, airbox. And so they do the air boxing, you know, just that move with the music. Um, it's a great way to start the day, too. It's like, just do that and it really just gets the energy in a good place. Um, it's a good way to pick yourself up after a disappointment. Um, but I find that I, I music is something I incorporate in every day now, whether it's just listening, whether it's singing or anything like that. So, you know, there are a few, a few there. Um, and I think if you just again pick one though, pick one and commit to do that consistently over a period of time. And then if you sort of find that that's working well, then maybe throw in another, um because the thing is, if we try and do everything, we do nothing. And it's important then to do like, you know, juggling, you got to get that one ball or spinning the plates, you've got to get one and then you get the next one going. But if you try and do them, all, that is going to be smashed. Plates and bowls everywhere.
Ocea: That is very true. Definitely. And I think if you try and do everything, it becomes overwhelming. And then you just you throw it up in the air because you are a I can't do this. Whereas if you if you gently add in one and then build upon it, the habits change. So which is great. So what's your go to song when you want to pump up your mood what is it?
Stacey: Yeah I've got a few. But I think my, my best one is actually the best thing by boom crash or pro and. Yeah. And sometimes it's, it's interesting because you don't always have to even play it. Like if it's a song that is just so close to your heart, like you can sing it into your head, because I know even some days, like, you know, when you wake up and your alarm goes off, your first thing is, I'm so tired. And then that's where I'm like, oy, I switch that instead. And so in my head I'll be seeing like, James Brown I feel good. Na na na na na na. The other is The Pointer Sisters, I'm so excited I just can't run it that again, just doing those little flips. And I guess that's the thing is, is recognising those those default reactions never go away. But you get so good at challenging them and then finding a way to counter them.
Ocea: Stacey, I want to thank you so much for all the pearls of wisdom you've shared today. They've been really great. I am definitely going to encourage people to implement your gratitude mantra. What a great way when a gratitude practice is not possible or just doesn’t feel right for you, I love that. Thank you so much for that tip and your other little pearls. If I can ask you to leave everyone listening with one takeaway from today, what would that be?
Stacey: Uh, everything's a choice. Everything is a choice. And I like to think of it as those of us who were kids in the 80s will know and love. We're living and breathing your very own choose Your Own Adventure book.
Ocea: Yes, that is perfect. Choose your own adventure. That is exactly it. I used to love those book. Stacey, thank you so much. We're going to leave with that really powerful statement which sometimes can be very difficult to own. But everything is a choice. So thank you Stacey.
Stacey: Thank you. It's been fun.
Ocea: I hope you enjoyed this conversation. I encourage you to find one takeaway and apply it to your own life. And what is one idea you have heard today you can share to inspire someone else? Or maybe even share this episode with a friend. Pop over to my website www.oceamarie.com. That's O – C – A- Marie.Com for more resources and the show notes. Thank you for being here. I appreciate your time and remember to always, always love yourself well.
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